Brexit consequences

[Miniliteman]

Still cannot believe the majority voted for a Brexit
Trading between the UK and the EU has come to a halt.
Not only because sending stuff costs a lot of time (been waiting for 3 weeks for a poster bought in the UK, it would have been here in 3 days before brexit), but mainly because tax and customs costs have to be added to the purchase price.
If I buy something in the UK now I will have to add a whopping 30% or so to the buy-price before I can have it delivered.

[vannin]

Believe it Leon believe it, we're out and we ain't going back.
How on earth have come to the conclusion that trade between the uk and that shower has come to a halt ? ? ? It's done anything but that !

[katana]

Unfortunately, IMO, when you get people who cannot exercise Common Sense to solve a simple problem, they will go way beyond difficult to the point of virtually impossible - and then say there is 'no easy option'.

Yes there is - stop introducing protectionist measures ON BOTH SIDES! and just let trade happen! Artificially high costs anywhere to protect businesses / industry where competition could exist, benefits no one in the long term - that is why we chose to leave IMO.

[Miniliteman]

How on earth have come to the conclusion that trade between the uk and that shower has come to a halt ? ? ? It's done anything but that !

I must be living in a parallel world because everywhere I look and everyone that I talk to confirms for me that trade has gone tits up.

[dasadrew]

...Yes there is - stop introducing protectionist measures ON BOTH SIDES! and just let trade happen! Artificially high costs anywhere to protect businesses / industry where competition could exist, benefits no one in the long term ....

There is an easy way for UK to trade with the EU without tariffs, taxes, customs duties, protectionism, controls, barriers and borders and with free competition between countries...............join the EU


PS: I'm not taking sides pro/contra Brexit, just stating the obvious!

[vannin]

We've already tried that and it didn't work

[dasadrew]

To be honest, in a lot of cases UK didn't actually exploit the benefits of EU membership; as a simple example, there was not a reduced postage costs zone for "EU". For the last 40 years I received parcels on the continent from UK with the green "Douane/Customs" label even though it wasn't necessary at all. Being able to go on holiday in 27 countries without any exchange rate costs and losses etc.


At the same time as UK deciding not to reap a lot of EU membership benefits, the EU was often a convenient scapegoat for things which were in any case going badly in UK.


Certainly the EU isn't a panacea for all ills, and only time will tell if "going it alone" will bring the promised advantages. It's certainly unusual nowadays for countries to want to leave blocs; most are desperate to become a bloc member somewhere.



As regards "protectionism", it's generally there to protect national industries from failing due to cheap - e.g. child-labour - products flooding the domestic market. If protectionism is dropped, UK will have to be sure that the wages drop to chinese levels to maintain full employment.


I'm curious how many UK businesses will be affected when it surfaces that they aren't really "British" businesses at all anymore, but simply assembling and manufacturing centres for Japanese, German, French, American, etc. companies.

[katana]

As regards "protectionism", it's generally there to protect national industries from failing due to cheap - e.g. child-labour - products flooding the domestic market. If protectionism is dropped, UK will have to be sure that the wages drop to chinese levels to maintain full employment.

I'm curious how many UK businesses will be affected when it surfaces that they aren't really "British" businesses at all anymore, but simply assembling and manufacturing centres for Japanese, German, French, American, etc. companies.

Unless people are completely backward, everyone knows cheap generally means Chinese/asian/indian - std joke in the 70's 'Made in Hong Kong' and that quality costs and comes from places that have higher labour costs. But 'Protectionism' comes in many forms eg. the French State run railways heavily invested in the UK rail franchises which are also subsidised by the UK tax payers - taking the profits back home to subsidise the French rail network and provide cheaper travel! This was due to EU directive saying any state franchise offer must be made europe wide to prevent 'state aid' Its all bollux & F**ked up!

[dasadrew]

That may well be, but if France could use the system to their advantage, why didn't Britain do the same? (In actual fact, the local train service here in Germany is now run by a British company).


It seemed to be always "those nasty people in the EU are forcing us to do this or that". Over the last 40 years, the continental european members have continuously been astounded that UK - sitting at the Top Table in the EU and with the most recent experience of running a worldwide empire for hundreds of years - never took over control, often putting itself in the victim role, rather than as one of the institutions which was instrumental in shaping how the EU worked.


UK never wanted really to "get on board" and thus lost a civil aircraft industry to France & Germany, a military aerospace industry to license-building US planes, a helicopter industry first to Italy and now defunct. Why it went that way remains a mystery to me, as it certainly wasn't due to a lack of "British Brains". Probably a lack of investment (which brings us back to France investing in UK where UK had left an opportunity open).


Anyway, I'm hoping for the best - don't want my UK pension to become worthless!

[Miniliteman]

I can sort of understand the UK wants to keep their currency, wants stricter rules at the borders for illegal immigrants, and therefor said yes to Brexit but with no deal with respect to trading with EU etc I think the UK will loose out bigtime.
The extra cost and paperwork and thus extra time for buying from and selling stuff to the UK will put alot of people off.

[dasadrew]

I always have to chuckle a bit at the illegal immigrant business, UK being a country which is probably 90% populated by "illegal immigrants", starting with the Romans, then the Vikings then the Angles and Saxons, then the French...
Probably the only true "indigenous" Brits are in Cornwall or Wales!
Ever heard the phrase "I'm not foreign, I'm pure Anglo-Saxon"

[rwdrs]

I pretty much agree with the Dasa's assement but have added my thoughts.

To be honest, in a lot of cases UK didn't actually exploit the benefits of EU membership; as a simple example, there was not a reduced postage costs zone for "EU". For the last 40 years I received parcels on the continent from UK with the green "Douane/Customs" label even though it wasn't necessary at all. Being able to go on holiday in 27 countries without any exchange rate costs and losses etc.

I cannot confirm that, I have been in Germany for over 20 over and letters and parcels coming from the UK never had a green/customs (Zoll) label attached; maybe so in France?!

At the same time as UK deciding not to reap a lot of EU membership benefits, the EU was often a convenient scapegoat for things which were in any case going badly in UK.


Certainly the EU isn't a panacea for all ills, and only time will tell if "going it alone" will bring the promised advantages. It's certainly unusual nowadays for countries to want to leave blocs; most are desperate to become a bloc member somewhere.

Basically, Europe always was the Tory party disease, stupidly Cameron decided to try and save and his (and the Tory's) skin by promising a referendum, then not having the Lib Dems to take the blame for blocking a referendum, had to hold one.

Then, being ****-sure of himself after winning the Scottish independence referendum, led a completely inept campaign and showed an uttter dereliction of duty when it came to checking where Farage & Co. were getting their money and funding their campaign. Which, in the end, led to a narrow defeat.
Without Facebook and, if Cameron had done his job properly, the UK might still be in the EU.

As regards "protectionism", it's generally there to protect national industries from failing due to cheap - e.g. child-labour - products flooding the domestic market. If protectionism is dropped, UK will have to be sure that the wages drop to chinese levels to maintain full employment.

Yep, that's the point of trading blocs, they are set up to protect like-minded and similar-sized economies from dumping, i.e. environmnental standards, wages (living standards), etc, so that the countries don't undercut one another and are protected from unfair practices from other (third) countries.

I'm curious how many UK businesses will be affected when it surfaces that they aren't really "British" businesses at all anymore, but simply assembling and manufacturing centres for Japanese, German, French, American, etc. companies.

I'm not sure that is the main problem, the thing is by allowing Johnson to handle negotiations, the UK has now gone for the 'nuclear option', and it is no surprise that the EU, wanting desperately to discourage other countries from doing the same as the UK isn't being particularly cooperative.

[rwdrs]

I must be living in a parallel world because everywhere I look and everyone that I talk to confirms for me that trade has gone tits up.

You're right there Leon, trade figures for January show, Germany imported 59% less from the UK, whilst the UK imported 29% percent less from Germany.
February might show a slight improvement but not fantastically I suspect.
I sold an item in January to the UK and Ebay has demanded 5 quid from me, thankfully it was only 30 quids' worth but that is what is ahghappening now, DPD and GLS refused to transport items to the UK from mid December.
As a demonstration of how bad the situation is, the UK govt won't impose the stricter rules on importing goods from the EU but (thanks to bully boy Sir David Frost) has now (through Johnson) unilaterally announced that the UK will extend the grace period for goods going to NI.



Gove and Johnson are telling lies basically, now the situation with NI is "we won't impose the stricter rules' so neither 'should you'.

[rwdrs]

There is an easy way for UK to trade with the EU without tariffs, taxes, customs duties, protectionism, controls, barriers and borders and with free competition between countries...............join the EU


PS: I'm not taking sides pro/contra Brexit, just stating the obvious!

To be honest, just staying in the customs union would have been a good idea or the single market.


I have stopped buying or selling to/from the UK which is a massive shame, as I liked to get products and services from the UK but as Leon says the additional costs now make it too much like Russian roulette and that's without the stricter rules from the 01/04.


By the way anyone saying 'it's their fault, they shouldn't impose trade barriers', the EU didn't, the EU is just ensuring anything that is sold in the single market conforms to its standards and that requires paperwork…

[dasadrew]

I cannot confirm that, I have been in Germany for over 20 over and letters and parcels coming from the UK never had a green/customs (Zoll) label attached; maybe so in France?!

My comment was perhaps misleading. Companies knew well that the customs arrangements were very advantageous, not needing declarations etc. (probably why industry was warning about Brexit consequences for years)


However, friends and relatives - i.e. the man in the street - kept putting those bl00dy labels on, not grasping the advantage of EU membership and it was the man in the street who voted for Brexit.


I just sold a rather expensive car key to a UK bidder and when he found out the costs attached he started off asking me to make false declarations on the customs forms etc. In the end, he didn't pay and the deal went through with the next highest bidder in an EU country.


Oh well, interesting times. Still Liz Truss did ensure that soy sauce wouldn't go up in price if it comes from Japan, and she resolved the EU-USA dispute between Airbus and Boeing which was jolly decent of her, UK not even being in the EU nor having any authority on that dispute and all that.