Brexit

[plentysideways]

...it's only now that the in vote are high lighting this ....the more you listen to the EU commission the more you see an increase in the dictatorship.

Maybe we was the first country that started to look outwards more than inwards to the EU system ...

Agree 100%

[alancdavis]

Thats how Hitler started

[Miniliteman]

Maybe we was the first country that started to look outwards more than inwards to the EU system ...

You could be right, but will it be the right decision?
Maybe more countries (Nexit???) are contemplating an exit but now they will wait what happens to the UK.
EU management will make sure the UK will regret an exit otherwise more will follow and EU will collapse and we go back to export-carnets, import-duties, visa needed to travel abroad etc.

See that the first companies who reside in London are looking to go continental.

[plentysideways]

You could be right, but will it be the right decision?
Maybe more countries (Nexit???) are contemplating an exit but now they will wait what happens to the UK.
EU management will make sure the UK will regret an exit otherwise more will follow and EU will collapse and we go back to export-carnets, import-duties, visa needed to travel abroad etc.

See that the first companies who reside in London are looking to go continental.

The way that Frau Merkel and M Juncker are squabbling with each other and both trying to become the Alpha Male, the EU will collapse and it will be nothing to do with the UK.

If the EU cut their nose off to spite their face and try to make the UK regret leaving then that will do far more to hasten the end of the EU than the UK leaving ever will.

Anyway, watching the goings on in Italian politics is far more relevant to the demise of the EU than Brexit at the moment.

[l j shaw]

If someone leaves work to go it alone ....you wish him well and help him as much as you can .....ok so it's not one person but a nation ...surely if they live by the principles they promote they should wish the UK well

The point they are going to make it hard to prevent others doing the same says it all really

Didn't find out until today that the Italians have the 3rd largest gold reserves of any country ........think at the moment six countries are on the brink of the EU question ....no wonder the EU commission are going to make things hard

think Merkel has got an elections pending as well ....lets see if 1.000.000 refuges get to vote ?

[Miniliteman]

Mmmm thought for a while it will turn out nasty for the UK or for the EU.
But now I think it will go tits up for all of us.

If you are married and it turns out it's not working you get a divorce.
But if you both end up homeless and with no money what's the point in getting divorced??

[l j shaw]

The solicitors gets richer lol lol

Would going back to the common market be a better thing based on trade ?

Just been reading that even the people of Germany are getting more discontent with the EU ....just tells you how much the EU commission cares about the normal people of any country

[1488ID]

To put it another way the UK is the biggest foreign market german car makers have. Do you really think that the heads of BMW,VW, AUDI etc will let Frau Merkel make it too difficult for the UK to buy german cars on reasonable terms?

I thought it was China now

[plentysideways]

I thought it was China now

You are correct. I was thinking about EU countries only. China and North America are bigger markets for German car makers than the UK.

The principal still applies though, we are too big to ignore out of hand.

[rwdrs]

Nowhere is it written that the UK will have to accept freedom of movement. No deal has been negotiated yet, so we don't "have to" accept a damn thing if we don't want to.

It is a central tenet to the "common market" (EEA). This is why the Swiss immediately lost all EU grants for scientific research after the referendum in favour to limit EU migration, as the Swiss have to implement a referendum; it is binding it Switzerland unlike the UK referendum.

I just hope that whoever is negotiating on behalf of the UK has a little bit more belief in Britain than those who voted to remain in. Don't forget, we (allegedly) manufacture very little nowadays, ie we import most things which also makes us a very important buyer/market/partner.
To put it another way the UK is the biggest foreign market german car makers have. Do you really think that the heads of BMW,VW, AUDI etc will let Frau Merkel make it too difficult for the UK to buy german cars on reasonable terms?
We will be in the buying seats in these negotiations, not the selling ones and that will give us the upper hand.

There's reasonable and reasonable, after all, if the UK doesn't get access to the EEA then Nissan (Sunderland) and Honda (Swindon) are knackered straight away, i.e. no direct access to the EEA.
There are also thousands of jobs on the line in financial services, as you know financial services account for 10% of UK GDP.
If the EU concedes freedom of movement then nobody will want to stay in, they will insist on freedom of movement. I could have told you this beforehand, anyone that voted to leave and thinks that the EU will concede on this is mad or believes the UK is more important that it actually is.
I also don't know where this "upper hand" of the UK is supposed to materialise from, the UK won't be dealing with "the EU", it will be negotiating with 27 other countries at once, where Germany might be keen not to impose tariffs, other countries that produce nothing might be happy to see tariffs of 25% imposed on goods from the UK (and to the UK).
As I said before, all of these simplistic arguments from Nuttal, Farage, Bo-Jo and Gove are illusions, why do you think all of those idiots have disappeared now it comes to actually pressing the nuclear button (Article 50)? They're saying thank forx I don't have to be the one responsible for taking us put of the EU…

[rwdrs]

You are correct. I was thinking about EU countries only. China and North America are bigger markets for German car makers than the UK.

The principal still applies though, we are too big to ignore out of hand.

But the UK won't be ignored, it just won't get nearly half as much as promised by Farage and co.
Look what Cameron came back with… nowt.
Admittedly that was before the referendum, but you have surely seen how Schäuble has treated Greece a fellow member of the euro, what do you think is going to happen if Germany or France refuses to play ball? France has conceeded virtually nothing on the CAP ever, and Schäuble said the other day "out is out"; which was probably at Cameron's behest but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he, for one, sticks to his guns.

This whole debate is basically a larger, more complex version of the Scotland independence debate. If the Scots had voted to leave, we'd have the same problems as with the EU (except the currency union with Scotland). That was the madness of it all. Scotland would have left the union to no longer be "ruled over" by Westminster, no instead it would've been Brussels. The UK is doing the same now, i.e. it wants to leave the union but at the same time does not want to have any tariffs imposed and carry on as before; how that's supposed to work is a mystery?!

Also, the Scots would've had to untangle the laws, found itself a new central bank (lender of last resort until joining the euro), make pension settlements with the UK etc, etc.

The only sense to come of this would be if the UK were to do some "behind closed doors" deal where it says it won't trigger Article 50 (or retract it during the 2 years) in consideration for allowing an immigration brake and other substantial reforms it wants.

[plentysideways]

If the EU concedes freedom of movement then nobody will want to stay in, they will insist on freedom of movement.…

Now, to me, that speaks volumes. As you quite correctly say, freedom of movement is a central tenet of the EEA. If we believe what we are told by pro Europe people, it is one of them, but not the ONLY one. However, if we accept your statement as correct (which I do), it would appear to be the only one to matter, as there are no other reasons to stay in.

[plentysideways]

The only sense to come of this would be if the UK were to do some "behind closed doors" deal where it says it won't trigger Article 50 (or retract it during the 2 years) in consideration for allowing an immigration brake and other substantial reforms it wants.

Agree 100%

[flyingpilot]

Free movement is a good thing but its all gone wrong because the EU has grown too big and moving too far East.
I certainly don't have an issue with people coming from Germany, Spain, Italy, Fran…………………..well most of Europe but when the doors are open to all of Africa and the middle east, it's just not sustainable.

If we could say we will allow freedom of movement to the original countries who were part of the EU when we signed up, whats wrong with that?

[Andyc]

They are going to let Turkey into the EU but 95% of the country is in Asia