Thatcher

[RSMEXICO]

You know what? I'd have someone like her running the country today in a heartbeat, rather than the kind of party leaders we have now (posh schoolboys!). You may not agree with all of her policies but at least she made the point and stuck to it. This lot NEVER answer a question - they just dodge them.

Maggie Thatcher - R.I.P.

An excellent post Smudger and everything of what you said in your - complete posting - I utterly second! Regarding the current lot - the prescient stuff imo - a part of me would like to see Labour go back to their Socialist roots, to give the Right something to fight for again. All politics are comparatively stagnant and characterless today - the wishey, washey weak rhetoric of them all, merely betrays that they have little to argue about and only loiter only slightly right or left of centre.

As much as I hated them - still do - Tony Benn, Neil Kinnock, Michael Foot et al had strong principles and they defended them to the last. I am grateful that Thatcher ( a much greater conviction Politician of course!)kept them at bay; but the unfortunate side-effect of all that was Tony Blair and Gordon Brown......let's not go there! Oh dear, we already have....

[rsdc1]

Smudger for PM

[Trickster]

My Granddad done 50 years down the pit and all u Thatcher lovers never lived it did u!!! Big J Spoke the truth and he spoke the feelings of the working man and the SHAFTED class!! I don't care what some little 28 year old school teacher has to say or any of u f**K wits that wasn't even born during Maggies rule

[Smudger]

28 years old? I wish!

Shafted class? You are kidding aren't you? Like it or not, Thatcher enabled the working class to prosper more than they ever had before.

I guess you had to live it to actually understand just how we've moved on though - And I did!

[topman96]

Shafted class? You are kidding aren't you? Like it or not, Thatcher enabled the working class to prosper more than they ever had before.


Couldnt have said it better myself

[topman96]

[quote=Smudger;649771]

Shafted class? You are kidding aren't you? Like it or not, Thatcher enabled the working class to prosper more than they ever had before.

Couldnt have said it better myself

[RatHead]

The people who think she did a god job appear to live in areas that weren't built around the industries she closed. The steel and coal towns were devastated and some of them still haven't recovered. You should try going to some of these places and see for yourselves, then say these people are "prospering more than ever".

[RStu]

Coming from a family who's father worked 35 years in the local pit unil it closed in 1987. The council estate that was built in 1948 near to it, 75% was to be allocated to the workers. The area is (always has) been a massive Labour stronghold. Yet from what I have seen, and also what my fathers views are, Maggie done more for us than ever.
During the 70's when there were strikes every other week, pits overmanned, non productive, there were more being closed around us than Thatcher ever did. The larger pits had to swallow up the workforce of the closing pits, putting even more strain on them. My father worked in Nantgarw pit, which was at the time probably one of the biggest and most modern of the day, with on site ***e ovens and washeries, closest proximity of the S Wales coalfield to the docks etc.
By the time Scargill was trying the socialist tactics of bullying everyone into an illegal strike, the writing was on the wall. Nantgarw pit was cracking art the seams. My father took advantage of the "right to buy" his house with 45% reduction in the valuation as long term rent being paid.
Guess what? So did to my reckoning ( and we knew everyone living on the estate(s) in them days) so did AT LEAST 99% of the other (BIG LABOUR VOTERS) workers.
Then came the closure due to the colliery imploding on itself, overmanned, under productive.
Redundancies were FANTASTIC for the day. Workers under 50 had £1000 per year of work service. So some of my fathers friends were having more than £30k, those over 50 years old had less, but had a lifetime pension. My father being 52 @ retirement, had £25k, a regular "pension" to this day, and free coal for life, ( only recently changed to gas due to old age)
What a FANTASTIC retirement package in 1987!!!
And.... all those Big Labour voters around here, still vote labour lol, slagging off Maggie, cant see the woods for the trees!.
The pit site is now a retail park.
When this was developing, the old pit winder wheels were dumped along the railway track about 2 miles away. My father and his friend wanted the council to erect these in memory of all the men working there ( some having sadly lost lives there) The company who owned them, agreed to let them have one, as long as they could raise enough money to get the other wheel to them ( Yorkshire I think) anyway, with charity events etc they managed to raise the money, the wheel was erected with a commemorative plaque.
This then made local tv news and newspapers, and during the photoshoot, Dr Kim Howells ( Labour MP) turned up to get his mugshot in the photos, pretending that he was involved! He never done a tap to help!

[76mex]

im with big johnie and trickster on this one took my father 5 years to get back on his feet after strike through debt and scargill shafted them as well but they were too blind to see it kept his dignity though and didnt scab its still a sore point to this day where i come from but life moves on but opinions dont she will still cause arguments even though shes 6 foot under

[Frosticles]

28 years old? I wish!

Shafted class? You are kidding aren't you? Like it or not, Thatcher enabled the working class to prosper more than they ever had before.

I guess you had to live it to actually understand just how we've moved on though - And I did!

Have a walk around Shirebrook one day NEVER recovered.

[richie]

Have a walk around Shirebrook one day NEVER recovered.

**** me Kev. Shirebroook was a shit hole in 1977, before maggie took over

[Smudger]

The people who think she did a god job appear to live in areas that weren't built around the industries she closed. The steel and coal towns were devastated and some of them still haven't recovered. You should try going to some of these places and see for yourselves, then say these people are "prospering more than ever".

Well, I live in what is still classed as a mining community, I come from several generations of coal miners, in fact my father convinced me NOT to go to the pit... And I stand by my words!

Life is what you make it guys, some people prefer to look backwards and as someone once told me, all that ever gets you is a stiff neck!

If people think that the working class people of this country are so badly done to, take a look in your garages and on your drives (and down your street). The working class people from the 60s and 70s never had the excess of wealth to buy an 'appreciating classic', and pop up to Cumbria for the weekend on the Lakes Tour, spending a few hundred quid in the bargain - they were more interested in putting food on the table.

Of course, I do know many people on minimum wage who struggle to make ends meet, but their situation would probably have been even worse had we stuck to the pre-Thatcher regime.

And then there are the people who think the country owes them a living, the ones who won't get of their backsides as they prefer to put out their hands and take all the freebies they can get - the least said about them the better but they are definitely NOT to be confused with the 'working class'!

[RatHead]

There can surely not be many devastated former coal mining areas where the streets are lined with appreciating classics? Agreed lots of people, like yourself it would appear have bettered themselves (if bettered themselves means being more affluent), Thatcherism maybe, maybe not and have become middle class. But that is not to say that the people who still live in these communities do not struggle to make ends meet at least as much now as then, they are certainly no better off for what Thatcher did and even more how she did it.

[RSMEXICO]

On a multitude of Forums I contribute on - from cars to trucks to trains to canals, there is a Thatcher thread. The consensus is the same - reflective to wider 'society' - you either agreed with her policies or you didn't. There is no right or wrong answer, much of it is subjective to the time and where you were, or weren't.

My Dad was running a run down (at the time) family business, that went from strength-to-strength under Thatcher; but had experienced considerable difficulties in the 70's to grow and create employment . He employed many ex-State Industry employed Tradesman (certainly from the Steel industries) after the closures and some of them even by the late - eighties had broken away and started there own 'little businesses'.

My personal opinion is, Thatcher wanted to help people who WANTED to help themselves and be free of un-productive State industry, outdated work practices and ultimately - free of a GROUP MENTALITY (aka Scargillism as said before) that was leading them (unwittingly) to slaughter! Yes, the side effect to that neccessary socio-economic change was dole for those who had the rug pulled from beneath them and couldn't - or wouldn't - adapt. The brutal truth for those that choose to accept it, is Millions were liberated and succeeded under Thatcher (of what is perceived as the traditional 'Working Class'), and I'm not just talking about a few early XR3 driving, Essex Barrowboys from the South. There is no North/South divide imo; just those that refuse to accept change and roll with it and those that don't - wherever that change and your own 'FREE WILL' may take you!!??

[Smudger]

There can surely not be many devastated former coal mining areas where the streets are lined with appreciating classics? Agreed lots of people, like yourself it would appear have bettered themselves (if bettered themselves means being more affluent), Thatcherism maybe, maybe not and have become middle class. But that is not to say that the people who still live in these communities do not struggle to make ends meet at least as much now as then, they are certainly no better off for what Thatcher did and even more how she did it.

Is there anywhere in the UK where the streets are lined with appreciating classics? This forum however, is made up of people who have them in their garages and they are mostly (imo) working class people. And that was my point.

With respect, where you and many other people make the mistake, is that you think that because people now have a bit of money (and have bettered themselves), they have become middle class but they haven't, they are still working class people, getting up and going to work and doing a day of manual work. The fact that many of these working class people now own their own houses and have some surplus cash to spend on nice cars, holidays abroad and even classic cars surely says that many working class people have become more prosperous.

If I haven't convinced you than fair enough and just because I'm saying that I feel we are better off because of the policies Thatcher started, doesn't mean that I don't accept that there is plenty of hatred still felt for her in certain circles. I just think it is a bit strange that people on a (quite expensive) classic car forum didn't appreciate that they are probably in this position because of Thatcherism. Well I certainly think I am anyway!

I totally agree with RSMEXICO she truly believed in rewarding people who get off their backsides and make it happen for themselves. It is sad that some people preferred to oppose her because of the colour of her party and had they taken the opportunities she made available, they would probably have seen it was the best for everyone.

Your last point is a fair one but I also believe that peoples expectations are much higher nowadays than they were 30+ years ago. We now live in a country where it is accepted that if you have enough children and know how to play the system, you never have to work a day in your life. I see documentaries about people who struggle to make ends meet, they have to go to food banks and get free food, it's terrible... The particular woman in the documentary was in a real mess, she couldn't afford food because she had to put petrol in her car and some credit on her mobile. She had a nice free 3 bed semi and lots of nice clothes and jewelry - not forgetting the kids Nike trainers. But she struggled to make ends meet!