Thatcher

[LOUIE]

She took no shit off them agrgie ****ers!!

And although she handled the minors terribly, scargill was a ****ing disaster area

[mk1rally]

I'm no thatcherite for sure, but she had balls! far more than the current bunch and at least you knew where you stood. You were in the North or South!!

I dont think she should have a state funeral as I think it's just a opertunity for all the grudge bearers (going off the telly, most of which were not even born then!) to kick off in front of the world media making us look like a right bunch of t""ats if front of all. She's not royalty.

Were setting a precidence and so god knows what will happen when Blair peggs it.

I lost most of youth ****ing off to alien lands chasing shit that didn't exist!!

She's dead, lets show we at at least have some standards, even if our leaders in the past did not.

[driverace]

Understandably lots of Miners and their families hated her for what she did to them ,but coal was getting far too expensive to mine,and the puppets(The miners) did not realise how well off the Union Leaders were ,living in their large houses and their lifestyles.Look at all the Union leaders now very affluent people who live off their brains and cunning.Mrs Thatcher did a lot of good for a lot of people ,remember you cannot suit ALL of the people ALL of the time.People were able to buy their council houses ,and at a cheaper rate too.She did not allow the Argentine take over of the Falkland Isles,even now the vote to be part of the UK is 99%.The IRA didnt like her as she stood up to them ,and was not moved by the hunger strikers.
She was no mans puppet,and frightened of no one unlike the politicians
of today who think only of themselves and how much they can make out of the job ! The older generation saw a lot worse before her,and we were nearly bankrupt before she came into power too

[bigjohnie]

Which of these made her a great PM?

1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher")
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
10. The poll tax
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
18. Section 28
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
23. She invented Quangos
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
31. BSE
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
42. 21.9% inflation

[rsderek]

hardly a place to debate thatcherism. it s bad enough on the news 24 hours a day without car forums ranting too. so

[jimmer]

That cow also stopped MIRAS after encouraging people to buy homes. Cannot say one good word about that cow!

[bigjohnie]

It is amazing right enough the difference in opinions it seems she was loved in the south in affluent areas and loathed in working class areas,we in scotland had a tory free country when she was in power and that has never really changed since.as jim royal would say state funeral my asre

[grum]

the great north south divide ............yep, its feckin great down here son

north


south

[graham John]

the great north south divide ............yep, its feckin great down here son

north


south

Wales


cheeRS

[driverace]

So thats why most of the lads in Wales wear wellies !

[waggy1600]

I stay in a mining village about 13 mile from ayr and altho iam to young to remember thatcher(90s kid) from what older people who lived here at the time told me it was sheer hell. people had no other jobs an did not know anyother way of working as it was what they did from when the left school! There was even boreds out sayin the witch is dead etc shes very hated up heer

[rwdrs]

Busy bee wasn't she?????

I don't suppose you think that maybe industry in Britain was actually wiped out by arrogance and lethargy?
The British bike industry, for example, the bikes leaked oil and had shite electrics. The companies, Norton, Triumph, BSA etc never took the Jap bike industry seriously and improved the products and, as a result, were annihiliated because they woke up too late.
The same story with car manufacturing, if it weren't for companies like Nissan there'd hardly be any car production this side of the channel.
Also, the unions ruled the roost back along, due to the leaders own self interest mostly, manufacturing ground to a halt far too often, i.e. wiping itself out and any inward investment.

As for the other the "rich" getting the lion's share of the tax cuts, what a ridiculous "stat", if the upper rate tax contributor was paying 83% and the lower rate contributor only paying 33% you'd expect that the exhorbitant level would come down further surely? Or would you happily go to work for 17% of your gross wages?

I can well appreciate the Thatcher was a despised figure but under the previous governments the UK had become like Italy:

No rubbish collection (half the time)
Dead not buried (due to industrial action)
Begging the IMF for money to save the economy
A general election every 18 months - 2 years
3-day weeks
Productivity at historically unseen levels
etc etc etc...

And what did the opposition have to offer, Jim Callaghan, Michael Foot, and Neil Kinnock...
or the SDP with David Owen and Shirley Williams...

Which of these made her a great PM?

1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher")
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
10. The poll tax
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
18. Section 28
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
23. She invented Quangos
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
31. BSE
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
42. 21.9% inflation

[rwdrs]

By the way, I know Maggie was old but not that old.
Here's a quote from a BBC website on quangos "How long have they been around? Dan Lewis, research director at the Economic Research Council and author of the Essential Guide to British Quangos 2005, says they have a long history. The first one - Trinity House, the lighthouse service - was set up in 1514. "Setting up quangos has just become the accepted way of doing things. They are doing something the civil service could be doing but politicians are loathe to do," he says"


or in full

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11405840

[plentysideways]

There is no getting away from the fact that opinions are very divided over The Iron Lady and everyone is entitled to an opinion on the matter. It does sadden me that so many opinions are presented as facts or based on incorrect or poorly presented facts though.

Morrissey said in his statement "As a matter of recorded fact, Thatcher was a terror without an atom of humanity" Don't see that as a verifiable fact; more like his opinion.

Inflation at 21.9%. Correct. But down from 25% under Harold Wilson's Labour Government in 1975 which doesn't get mentioned by our wonderfully unbiased BBC

Thatcher the Milk Snatcher. Free school milk for school children under the age of 18 came about as a result of Clement Attlee's government introducing The School Milk Act of 1946. Each child had 1/3 of a pint every school day. It was introduced to combat malnutrition and vitamin deficiencies caused by rationing during WWII. In 1968 the LABOUR government abolished it for 11 - 18 year olds. The Conservative Party did not oppose the move as they saw it as a necessary step on the path to reducing excessive borrowing of the Labour Party. The Education Secretary of the time was Edward Short and he doesn't appear to have received any criticism for the abolition of free milk for a seven year age group. Many people had the view that as rationing and the associated vitamin deficiencies were over free school milk wasn't such an essential item.
In 1971 the CONSERVATIVE government under Ted Heath abolished free school milk for 7 - 11 year olds. The Labour Party DID oppose this move even though they had done the same thing to a bigger age range of children just a few years earlier. The Education Secretary at this time was Margaret Thatcher and she does appear to have received some criticism. Seems a little bit unfair to me, and a case of "one rule for one, and another for somebody else"; especially as under The Thirty Year Rule it is clear that the "snatching" was down to the Treasury Dept demanding cuts in Education spending and Mrs Thatcher was actually opposed to the idea!

Undoubtedly Baroness Thatcher did good and bad but I help but feel that what happened thirty and forty years ago has been clouded by the passage of time and not all the facts are being presented properly in the present day.

[RatHead]

Today the unions don't have the power they once had. That is not because Thatcher beat the unions, more because she crippled the powerful industries behind them. Today the unions couldn't bring the country to its knees, it is not because the unions are under control it is because there is no significant industry for them to represent. That in my view is not progress, it is the pure spite of an abhorent individual.