A frame towing

[driverace]

What do members on here think of towing a car via an A frame,behind a motorhome?
There are people down here in Spain,who tow cars by this method which I feel is illegal.Firstly because they cannot meet the braking efficiency requirements,as once the servo is exhausted,then far more pressure is needed on the pedal,via the overrun sytem that they are using to opperate the brake pedal.The manufacturers,one being Towtal,give their customers a print out stating that they "feel that their system is legal",but according to the Department of Transport,the braking efficiency is ONLY acheivable if the towing vehicle is fitted with a compressor,that can recharge the servo.
AND the Spanish police also say is NOT legal,as they have just fined ,one motorhome towing car by A frame,a big 250 euro,s.
And state that it is illegal according to European law.
Yet the British police turn a blind eye!

[hotrs2000]

The RAC and AA only use these as an emergency to get you off the motorway / side of road to a safe place.

NOT for long term towing.

[LOUIE]

thought it was illegal to use them over certain distances from home

[Frosticles]

Ricky (MEX1T) Does this.

[LOUIE]

Ricky (MEX1T) Does this.

must be legal then

[mk1gaz]

Lots of people around here do it all the time but a traffic cop will nick you for sure if he's got the hump etc .
Also watch out for gearbox problems if doing this over long distances or often . Towing a car at 60mph in neutral foooks the main shaft up as it gets hot and starved of oil without all the other gears turning . Always take the prop off is my recomendation .

[Dobbo63]

in the uk it is only supposed to be used as a recovery method. in europe it is illegal. if usin a 4x4 in the uk you will usually be ok as long as you arn,t towing anything that exceeds makers stated unbraked weight. i have don e this lots of times with my ww2 jeep behind my disco inc trips to france and belgium and never been stopped whilst towing.

[driverace]

A frame towing

Further to my thread on this matter,it is only the uk people who use this method,all the Dutch and Germans ALWAYS use a 2 or 4 wheel trailer with the car ON,the BIG problem with the A frame is you cannot reverse the car on the A frame for more than 2 or 3 metres at the very most.
As said i still believe this is illegal,unless for recovery purposes only,and by a recovery company.So do the police here in Spain too!

[RUDDY]

Alledgedly

I brought my old MK1 RS2000 (VGH18M) all the way from Croydon to Cumbria using one of these, when we got to about 10 miles from home the towing Tranny ran out of juice, no problem , we fired up the RS2 on the dolly, put it into gear and pushed the Tranny a short distance to the petrol station up the road.

All the above is hyperthetical officer

[vinny]

we dont use a frames any more, we use rdt's or pole in emergency.
max tow speed is 50 and if its rear wheel drive car - bm's etc you have to rear lift it and lock steering wheel in straight ahead position

[KL]

I used to A frame the rally Escort to Belgium (untaxed) and to the start of the RAC etc. using my standard RS2 - and only later a Granada Estate. I got the idea from Simon Everett. We always had someone in the driver's seat of the rally car to operate the brakes (no servo - bias box), making it legally a braked trailer. Regularly used to tow it at 80mph. Where it got hairy was in the wet on sharp bends like tight roundabouts - we once had both cars go sideways at very slow speed and the "driver" in the rally car had to grab the wheel and use opposite lock. Normally he kept both hands well away from the wheel.
As mentioned above, we used to take the prop out. This caused the odd problem with it not being any point parking it in gear or using the hydraulic handbrake when lashed down on rough ferry crossings.
The UK law seems a grey area today, like so much in this nanny state.
In the US it is normal to A bar a car behind an RV from NewYork to Florida - at holiday times half the traffic on Interstate 95 seemed to be using A bars.

[driverace]

A frames

I think some on here are getting a little mixed as to what an A frame is.
So the A frame fixes to the towing vehicle by a towball (usually 50mm) this is then connected,to a bracket that is already bolted to the front chassis rails,and the front inner cross member,with two connecing eyes coming out either side of,or underneath the radiator,a long bar then goes through these eyes,and the A frame is then connected,then a brake cable,connects from the over run slider on the A frame to a clamp on the brake pedal,so pulling the brake pedal down,via the cable from the slider.
Some comments i am sure are about towing DOLLYS.
Yes Keith you do see a lot of RVs towing cars in the US,but,i dont think brakes are that important there as the RV is usually 36/40 foot long and weighs 10tons.Here motor homes towing cars are of less weight and do not have air brakes,or electric retarders,such as i saw in Arizona 3 months ago as used by the "snowbirds"

[grum]

Alledgedly

I brought my old MK1 RS2000 (VGH18M) all the way from Croydon to Cumbria using one of these, when we got to about 10 miles from home the towing Tranny ran out of juice, no problem , we fired up the RS2 on the dolly, put it into gear and pushed the Tranny a short distance to the petrol station up the road.

All the above is hyperthetical officer

Paul, do you need Specsavers son

[KL]

The main concern I had was the extra weight of the substantial brackets permanently fitted to the rally car (using the side ARB bracket mountings with longer bolts) that protruded through the front panel/spoiler. I made these with just enough hole clearance for an HT bolt that went through each eye and the "forks" I welded and bolted to my self-welded A frame (which had a proprietary trailer hitch bolted to front).
This set up originally caused the car to "wander" when towed (a very small amount but quite disconcerting to whoever was in it). I fixed it completely by using 4 worn damper top mounting rubbers, forced inside the A frame trailing "forks" either side of each car bracket, with the bolts through the lot.
We used a trailer board temporarily bolted to the back bumper of the rally car with the cable taped to the boot, along the gutter and over the front wing.

[Mikethepanel]

I normally tow my rally escort to trackdays with an A frame
(the same one MEX1T uses) never had any problems or been stopped