Public road driving

[KL]

A seasonal public service annnouncement it's not. Just a warning of the danger of driving modified cars quickly on the road instead of in authorised competition, in view of the numbers in another thread that feel quick racks etc are essential for road use here. So no apology for the dramatic and otherwise inappropriate photos in this instance.
I do a lot of behind the scenes work to prepare for better motorsport opportunities on the island of Antigua (a nation with a permanent population no bigger than a small UK town but as high or higher a per capita car ownership).
Sly, one of the many young enthusiasts, fittted lowered and stiffened springs and big wheels to his Civic, on public tarmac roads that make most of our forest stages look like billiard tables. No one really knows why he crashed last week but, because his car was modified, we now have cabinet ministers slagging off car enthusiasts and accusing them of running on the road with nitrous (which really is confined to their one drag strip). If that reaction can occur in a place where, to put it bluntly, life is cheaper than here, we in the UK need to be extra careful about our image. Few RS Escort owners are guilty in the way our UK "cruise" brigade are but we could all easily be affected. These days, forget the "spec lists" unless you are competing off road.

[rwdrs]

I cuss the Germans and their bloody red tape but if you don't want to invalidate your insurance EVERYTHING that you change has to be "road legal" and once fitted checked by an engineer and entered on the reg. document.

Sawn off coil springs and rubbish like that is therefore avoided. As for QRs the ratio makes no negative difference to the safety if anything it is positive IMO.

I'm sure also that many agree that driving fast on public roads these days is pretty dangerous, even if you fit stuff properly that is safe to be used. It is down to the way a car is driven and not what has changed IMO.

[hally]

oh not a lot of that left

[mr freeze]

shocking pictures .....

[mista weava]

i have and use a mk1 escort historic rally car in competition and have a modified nissan 200sx road car.

i dont really see the connection between road safety and non-modified road cars.

i see the point that is being made, but its not particuarly relevant in this context IMO.

i think there is universal agreement that big wheels and lowering springs applied to the car in the pictures is a bad idea; its a common misconception by the young that this is going to improve the handling. we all know that suspension is complicated and requires skill to set-up properly. my personal opinion is that the accident was most likley caused by lack of experience and too much right foot.

the relationship between quick ratio steering racks, non OE wheels, accidents and the members of this forum are lost on me.

[PFX_will_return]

Nanny state

There is an interesting point being made here by KL, should modified cars be allowed on the road? There is pressure being brought from some areas to have all modified cars put through the SVA test. Are modified cars dangerous to drive? Of course not. If a competition derived modification is fitted to a road car then it will improve the road car in the same way that it improves the competition car. If the modification makes the road car dangerous then it must also make the competition car dangerous. Road safety comes from the driver and the way a car is driven in the same way that speed does not cause accidents but inappropriate speed does.

I appreciate the point that we need to be careful of our image with the general public and inappropriate speed on the public highway will only lead to lower speed limits and more cameras. People need to consider what they use their cars for and not fit they latest gadget for the sake of fashion. It does make me worry when people ask questions like "should I fit a ...?". If you don't know what it does then the answer is probably NO. But we do want to enjoy driving our cars and many of the things people are fitting will do that. Quick racks, lsd's, poly bushes, gas dampers etc all make the cars more enjoyable to drive whether its on the B1363 or Croft. I believe that Ford would have fitted all these things if it wasn't for the cost and the negative impact on nvh. They were trying to sell a car that would appeal to the masses after all. I can't think why 400bhp is necessary in a mk2 escort though.

I've gone on long enough but this is something that concerns me as I've been modifying cars for enjoyment for the last 15 years. What do other people think?

[16 sport]

haven driven a few modified cars myself i dont think putting uprated suspension or wide wheels causes accidents it comes down to how much of a t*t someone is being behind the wheel.

I had seen it one night when i had a mk5 xr3i driving at 25mph in town with a **** in a supped up plastic fish box of a corsa sitting on my back bumper came out of the town and the first straight he decided to try and overtake.......being rather pi**ed off at him sitting so tight up my ass i admit i let the red mist descend and stuck the put down in 3rd leaving him sitting on the other side of the road............much to the amusement of the dumb girlfriend in his passenger seat.

sorry to have gone off track of the subject but as i said earlier it comes down to who is behind the wheel not what mods have been done to cause accidents.

[Rallyman72]

Surely the first post, although not directly, says it all. It is not the modification that is dangerous, it is a combination of the modification and the road conditions. After all you would not expect a race car to be quick in the forests and vice versa. It also implies that the owner was inexperienced.

Per se it is not the modification that is dangerous but a lack of knowledge or appreciation of the relevance of the modification to the intended use of the vehicle. The experience and ability of the driver is also relevant, not everyone is Lewis Hamilton or Marcus Gronholm.

This argument about keeping competition modification for competition has been going on for 30 years - a friend of mine was killed on a road rally when his car, a works spec Dolomite Sprint, went off into a rhyne (ditch to non West Country folk) and he drowned. The police impounded the car and ultimately declared it unsafe because it was too powerful, in their view, for road use. It ended there but does show that this debate is not new. As an interesting aside many modern production cars have far more power than that car did and do not have all the safety gear either.

[KL]

The whole point is that it is not what WE perceive these days, it is what the nanny state and its supporters perceives. Giving a high profile to modified cars purely used on the road, as happens sometimes on places like this, is dangerous for the future of such hobbies and motorsport in general.
Elsewhere, it has often been necessary to forcibly remind younger enthusiasts that road rallying today survives only by keeping a very low profile, not publicising it. In Kent now, thanks to the "anti brigade" viewing rally forums on the internet, it effectively doesn't.
When ill-informed drivel is spouted by Government Ministers in countries where, putting it politely, life is held cheaper than here, we should be afraid - very afraid.
It's one thing to write about what used to go on in the past - but watch the current comments about donuts etc. on places like this. You never know who is reading.

[custom219v]

Some very valid points there KL and shocking photo's.
A previous coment mentioned that any competition part will improve a road car, this simply isn't true in all cases, imagine a 17yr old in his nova who's managed to find a set of competition brake pads, unless there at temp they will not work correctly, in general road use (around town) they will not acheive the correct temp.
Thats not to say that some parts will not improve a car.

We are a nanny state and the E.U is doing its best to stamp out modified cars, bikes etc.

Having said all this, the same accident could just as easily happened if the lad was driving a brand new off the shelf production car.

Very sad.