RS from Rally garage not as sound as said!

[Leckypete]

Today recieved a letter from the credit card company:-

"The retailer has informed us that he feels that you got a good deal because he claims a vehicle of it's age could fetch over £10000 and the price did reflect its condition. The retailer also advised the bank that a car of this age was bound to have problems and was not advertised as being in perfect condition.

I appreciate this is not the response you were looking for. Should you wish to pursue the matter further, I would suggest you seek your own independant advice as to your position and any action you may take."

Well I am not saying a very good RS2000 isnt going to fetch over £10k but I am sure I wouldnt have paid 5K for mine if I had seen it before it was delivered, he described it as being sound underneath, stating he had replaced parts so I believed him.

I knew it wouldnt be concourse but expected it to be sound, it does need work and some parts replacing/repairing/sourcing to complete. This I was willing to accept for the price but not to have to do a major re-build!

What I need now I think in case Ian cant convince him to be fair is for someone that can give a proper valuation on my car that the credit card company will have to listen to, dont know if they have looked into valuations or have just taken his word for it (they have plenty of pictures showing the condition of it)

Any suggestions for such people or volunteers?

Thanks,
Peter.

[a1topdog]

I can't help with the valuation , but what you need to do is start to gather evidence of what these cars sell for in various conditions. Save all the for sale ad's you can find (ebay , forums etc) and build your case up , just incase you do have to take things further.

[Banishit]

a1togdogs comments yes check out prices but forget EBAY as its not a true reflection of RS prices and most on there are shite anyway, thats why they are on there, ther have been a few good ones 1 in 20 odd and the prices are artificially high

from the pictures I have seen about £2-2.5K would be nearer the mark at a push the car needs a full rebuild would be more if it were a rare colour

[dasadrew]

Have you contacted the previous owner? If he then says the garage owner told him "Can only give you 2k M8. Car's only fit for breaking" then you're on to a winner.

Have you had the car re-MOT'd yet? If a reputable garage (Main Ford Dealer would look good) declares it an MOT failure then that gives you good evidence too.

I just got back £2000 from a guy who sold me wrong alloy wheels on eBay. It took THREE YEARS and two court cases but diligence and patience did pay off in the end. About 18 months ago I wrote the matter off mentally, so it was a nice windfall. Be prepared also at some time to let the legal case run, but look to the future and put it behind you.

Again, refuse advice from anyone just recovering from a lobotomy to take the law into your own hands. It's unfortunate but, until this guy is proven wrong, he is deemed to be innocent and anything you write or say to defame him can come back to you as a prosecution for libel and slander. As he owns a business he probably has a legal insurance and will also be able to prove that you are damaging his business. The consequences don't bear thinking about. That applies to any third party making defamous statements too!

[oxb1l]

I am looking for an RS2 at the moment and looking to spend around the same as yourself m8 (for a descent useable car)and there is no way on this earth i would have paid anything like that for this vehicle .
as for the previous owner its as easy for him to contact as it is for you.

10k car this makes me feckn mad ,these people must have family i would never do anythin like that to anyone incase it came back on me

l8r Bill (must bite tongue )

[Rallyrsmd]

There is a lot of advice flying around here. i would try to clear your mind & look at things in a logical way.
Is it the case if you paid with a credit card you bought the car from them, not him? If so it's them you need the money back from, not the dealer.
At the moment you have contacted them, and they have contacted him. He has responded, and they in turn have got back to you with the answer. Now it's your turn to give them the evidence they need.
Did you get anything in writing as to the condition of the car? Do you have a copy of the advert & does it say anything?
What about the MOT. Take the car to an MOT testing station & get a fail report (if it fails!). That gives you some ammunition to go back to the credit card company with.
So in an ideal world you can prove that you paid for a car which wasn't as described and is officially unroadworthy. The credit card company might take a different view given that evidence. If not, you have gathered the evidence you need for a legal claim.

[Banishit]

There is a lot of advice flying around here. i would try to clear your mind & look at things in a logical way.
Is it the case if you paid with a credit card you bought the car from them, not him? If so it's them you need the money back from, not the dealer.
At the moment you have contacted them, and they have contacted him. He has responded, and they in turn have got back to you with the answer. Now it's your turn to give them the evidence they need.
Did you get anything in writing as to the condition of the car? Do you have a copy of the advert & does it say anything?
What about the MOT. Take the car to an MOT testing station & get a fail report (if it fails!). That gives you some ammunition to go back to the credit card company with.
So in an ideal world you can prove that you paid for a car which wasn't as described and is officially unroadworthy. The credit card company might take a different view given that evidence. If not, you have gathered the evidence you need for a legal claim.

all that has been answered in the posts above yours

[Rallyrsmd]

all that has been answered in the posts above yours

So where does it say how seller described the car in the original advert?

Where does it say the owner has an MOT test station fail report and what it says?

These two are crucial to show if the car is 'as described' and roadworthy.

The credit card company have ducked the issue on the basis that a car of that age and price wouldn't be perfect. My response, armed with the above, would be I didn't expect perfection, I expected it to be safe, roadworthy & as described in the advert.

Hope you get on OK with it.

[Leckypete]

Update:-

Got another letter from the card company saying:-

Whilst the bank notes it will cost in the region of £2500 to make the vehicle roadworthy the main question is whether the vehicle is worth the amount paid in its present condition.

We have therefore written to The Ford RS Owners Club to ask if they know of anybody in your area who would be able to value the vehicle for us. Once we have recieved a response from them we will contact you again.

So looking a bit more hopefull??!!

Regarding the mot, I contacted VOSA and Trading standards, VOSA wernt interested as more than 3 months had passed since test (although a complete fool could see the amount of corrosion, even sunk in the north sea wouldnt rust that much in 3 months!)
Trading standards similar but they have a 2 month limit (to prove without doubt car was in that condition when delivered) again since it was/is dry stored anyone should know corrosion doesnt get much if any worse in this environment but so called experts at T.S of no use.

So going to expense of mot seams pointless as sure they would say it only proves its unroadworthy now not when sold/delivered

Going by the banks letter I read it they accept the car isnt roadworthy anyway.

Car was described in advert as although not concourse it being a good tidy practical car with 10 months mot.

I read that as although not better than new (a concourse example) it being a sound honest example (was verbally described as sound by garage owner)

If he had intended that to read it needed work he should have said so in plain english.

[tony-mac]

Whatever happened with this situation ? Was it sorted ??

[dvdtlf]

if you do go to small claims court then remember English and Scottish law differ and if you win you will need an afrodavid (more than likely the wrong spelling!) to convert it. Which no ones seems to know how to do.

I done everything I could but the sh*t legal system in this country laughs at us and gives the trader all the benefit of the doubt and ways out they could want.

[rwdrs]

affidavit

The other one is a West Indian...

[LOUIE]

I'd not seen this thread originally and although its a sorry tale there are a number of lessons to be learnt from it.. Never buy a car without going to view it first and insure your 100% happy you know its faults etc. 5k will not buy a solid car without the odd problem, those days are well behind us. seek correct advise from a reconised source, not the keyboard soliciters. And as hard as it sounds, be prepaired that if you do take legal action, there is a chance you will lose, having to pay for fees and time..

[13sport]

I'd not seen this thread originally and although its a sorry tale there are a number of lessons to be learnt from it.. Never buy a car without going to view it first and insure your 100% happy you know its faults etc. 5k will not buy a solid car without the odd problem, those days are well behind us. seek correct advise from a reconised source, not the keyboard soliciters. And as hard as it sounds, be prepaired that if you do take legal action, there is a chance you will lose, having to pay for fees and time..

I agree with what your saying there Louis however knowing leccypete and having seen his car prior to and during its restoration whoever mot'd it needed a bullet!

[dvdtlf]

affidavit

The other one is a West Indian...

That's the one!

I must of been more asleep than I thought originally as that guess at spelling it was awful!