View Full Version : A question to you all...
Just how fast are the 'new'MK2 Escorts? have they been timed against any newer rally and race cars? Are they any faster than Ari's Black Beauty?
Just wondering....
dont know compared to black beauti but quite often mk2s are beating wrc on national rallys
unfortunately, we here in OZ dont see the fast Escorts in action like you do in the UK. We need more of them built here and in the forest!
I would imagine a 2.5+ litre Millington engine and sequential gearboxed "new" mk1/2 Escort will **** all over an oldskool BDA works car no sweat . I could be wrong of course but i doubt it , lol . :D
paul andrews
18-01-2010, 18:44
mine was very fast;)
plentysideways
18-01-2010, 20:15
2.0 BD 250bhp v 2.5 Millington Diamond 300+bhp and torque to match
5 speed zf v 6 speed sequential
13" wheels v 16" / 18" wheels (and therefore MUCH bigger brakes and tyre footprint)
Good old Billies v remote resevoir 3 way adjustable dampers
Live axle v I R S
"Modern" Escorts are much quicker than original spec cars.
Be interesting to see if any forum members who own both types could tell us how many seconds per mile though.
It would be a great mag feature , classic old skool BDA rally car verses a New skool Millington rally car with all the latest bits . I reckon on gravel/mud etc the old one would be as fast but on the dry tarmac and it would be toast .
The old car wins in the looks department though , all those 15 inch wheeled new rally Escorts look fooooookin crap . :pukeright:
Be interesting to see if any forum members who own both types could tell us how many seconds per mile though.
think the best person to answer that would be Will Onions as hes got a historic mk2 and a 'new' mk2 and rallies them both
I've seen the odd Super dooper "new" 300+bhp (or so they reckon) Duratec rally car with sequential gearbox , 10 inch wide cut slicks etc etc racing at Santa Pod at the classic Ford show over the last few years . Slow as foooooook normally , 14's on a good day :rolleyes: ............ :D
i was going thru some old videos(VCR!), remember them, and I found some great footage of Roger Clark in the Cossack RS1800 and Ari in Allied Polymer. They were the fastest of all it seemed. When Ari took to Isle of Man it was a bloody good video, so quick! And it got me thinking, have we really got that much quicker in 20(30!) years? Technology aside, why does it cost so much to build a MK2 Escort for rallying? I mean is it all technology or just good metal going into the shell only to be crumpled against the roadside furniture?
Yep a good magazine feature I reckon...
bluevan1
18-01-2010, 22:31
ye mate cost a lot of money to build a gp4 rally car it could cost u £75 grand onwards depends what sec u want .
my last semi rally car cost £15 grand ...but was worth it.
my mk1 van resto is sitting over 5 grnd to finsh.
just bout a rs2000 but needs a full resto build it likely cost 20 grand to build.:D
The Escort is a quiet achiever in OZ.
jimmymk1
18-01-2010, 22:52
It would be a great mag feature , classic old skool BDA rally car verses a New skool Millington rally car with all the latest bits . I reckon on gravel/mud etc the old one would be as fast but on the dry tarmac and it would be toast .
The old car wins in the looks department though , all those 15 inch wheeled new rally Escorts look fooooookin crap . :pukeright:
I too love the old school stuff but i think your last sentence is an extremely bold statement!
rs2000rik
18-01-2010, 22:53
its just that technology has improved over the decades, and no doubt it hasnt stopped yet. Who knows what the future will bring. You can definately not replicate the sound of a BDA screaming through the forest tho!!! :cool:
I too love the old school stuff but i think your last sentence is an extremely bold statement!
lol , but it's true . The "max power" wheels ruin them . Should be a law against it . :D
I have been in a couple of old works cars and I would say my 'modern' YB engined mk2 would give them a run for their money and is far more driveable on the throttle bodies. Although have never tested back to back.
I have always run on 13" wheels as I am a traditional enthusiast, however we do often run out of brakes on tarmac events and the 15's would allow us bigger brakes and a better choice of affordable tyres. I did try the Mk2 on the 17" wheels from my old Puma kit car and it felt horrible on the road, much prefer the driving experience on 13's
When Ari took to Isle of Man it was a bloody good video, so quick! And it got me thinking, have we really got that much quicker in 20(30!) years?
Yes some great speeds achieved in the black car with the wheelie bin rear arches , no wonder he crashed !!!!! :D
As for the progress then brakes are better , suspension is better , engine management is better , gearboxes are beter , tyres are better so all these things push the game on the most . An engine is an engine though so not much has changed in the BHP per litre stakes over the years . They never had 2.5+ litres in 1980 though . :)
id say one the quickest modded mk2 rally cars on tar in the uk is simon mauger and he still runs 13s
http://www.kazrallying.co.uk/pic/longcross2009.jpg
quit often will go and beat wrc cars
Groupcracer
19-01-2010, 02:01
just my two cents worth.....driving skill must enter into somewhere....
Ari in his prime vs guys with lots of cash? I'm not criticising these guys but merely pointing out that theres is a flaw in what my mate wombat is thinking...
maybe sebatien loeb in a modern escort? then you would defintely get the answer.
Also what surface tarmac or gravel irs vs solid would defoo make a difference.....
for what it's worth I reckon the new stuff kill the old stuff but the old stuff looks tougher.
Can of worms opened...well done Wombat:cool:
It would be a great mag feature , classic old skool BDA rally car verses a New skool Millington rally car with all the latest bits .
It's been done here - a Grp 4 period correct MK II BDA up against a modern spec YB RS2000 round the local kart circuit. The BDA was lifting wheels everywhere, and the driver commented on the huge difference in brakes/suspension on the "modern" MK II which handled way better than the period spec car.
Not very scientific as tyre compounds are better these days etc etc.....
Harry Flatters Rally 2009 (Tarmac), 10 stages on Epynt.
2 very good drivers, one modern one historic
Peter Lloyd - Subaru S12 WRC (Ex Peter Solberg car) 1:00:46
Mark Solloway - RS1800 (Historic spec, narrow tyres etc) 1:03:56
About 3 mins difference over 80 tarmac stage miles
rs2000rik
19-01-2010, 11:46
lets try that down pembrey lol i think the time difference will definetly be bigger again, in peters favour.
Not very scientific as tyre compounds are better these days etc etc.....
Harry Flatters Rally 2009 (Tarmac), 10 stages on Epynt.
2 very good drivers, one modern one historic
Peter Lloyd - Subaru S12 WRC (Ex Peter Solberg car) 1:00:46
Mark Solloway - RS1800 (Historic spec, narrow tyres etc) 1:03:56
About 3 mins difference over 80 tarmac stage miles
Interesting, but the question was comparing a "modern" MK II against WRC cars, or a "modern" Mk II against period , rather than period against WRC as above. Did anyone do the same event with a modern MK II to compare the times with the WRC cars?
I suppose a good comparison would be to check Phil Collins' times on the Irish events he used to run in his rear-winged Mk II against the WRC cars (That was a 2.5 Millington engine wasn't it?)
I'd though of Phil Collins, he competes in Ireland where lots of top spec 'modern' escorts mix it with the WRC's. Might be more useful to check out the Irish events?
Tour of Epynt 09
Mel Evans Impreza WRC 1.07.47
Damiam Cole Hyundri WRC 1.10.05
Simon Mauger Modded Mk2 1.11.12
sutty234
19-01-2010, 14:23
id say one the quickest modded mk2 rally cars on tar in the uk is simon mauger and he still runs 13s
http://www.kazrallying.co.uk/pic/longcross2009.jpg
quit often will go and beat wrc cars
this car is on youtube and has to be the best sounding car in world.dont know how to post it though just type in mauger rs1800 bda escort and it should come up.
this car is on youtube and has to be the best sounding car in world.dont know how to post it though just type in mauger rs1800 bda escort and it should come up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDBtW0ZJkBc
sutty234
19-01-2010, 14:31
cheers aled
this car is on youtube and has to be the best sounding car in world.dont know how to post it though just type in mauger rs1800 bda escort and it should come up.
same reg number,different car,the 1 in the pic i posted is simon new car with loads of toys,the 1 in the vid was when his dad ran it with a bda i believe.
simons old car was blue
http://www.irish-rallying.com/downloads/090511_171626/resized_Mk%2011%20Challenge%2009%20Simon%20Mauger% 20And%20Ken%20Blanche.jpg
vBulletin® v3.7.4, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.