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Banishit
14-02-2005, 16:52
WHERE do I go now "as I cry into my kebooooaord" sob sob

Well today has been as they say a "SHIT" of a day

Put the rear axle and brakes back on after some effing and blinding, working on my own, car 18" off the ground but got it done in the end only to find my decambered single leaf springs are just too low the axle hits the bumps stops when you push the car down and the 10" coil over front springs are going to be too low too, as the threaded part of the strut is right down on the brake pipe bracket well 3 mm above so I need 12" now

the chassis rails are sitting 41/4" of the ground back and 5" on the front so now I dont know what to do

and new back springs F*&*******BB***********EW*C**C*W !!!!!!!

heres what she looks like

http://www.banishit.com/backside2.JPG

http://www.banishit.com/backside3.JPG

http://www.banishit.com/side1.JPG

http://www.banishit.com/side3.JPG

for scale heres 2 185 tyres next to it

http://www.banishit.com/backside4.JPG

Tim
14-02-2005, 16:56
**** thats low, i like cars lowered but nt on the floor low

RS2000&MEXICO
14-02-2005, 17:02
well brian the probs start here for me aswell.....

Robb
14-02-2005, 17:05
Yea but she still looks gorgeous have you removed the isolator packs on the leaf springs?

Banishit
14-02-2005, 18:04
heres the side view of where the wheels are in the arches

http://www.banishit.com/frontsus.JPG

http://www.banishit.com/backsus.JPG

Banishit
14-02-2005, 18:08
Yea but she still looks gorgeous have you removed the isolator packs on the leaf springs?

I was talking about this to the Hoarder today but when putting them this way there does not seem to be anything to locate the spring to axle apart from a small round bit of metel which has a nut on the bottom side of the spring? and the holes in the axle casing are 1" across so surely there would be a lot of movment ?

Kel
14-02-2005, 18:08
whats the problem, look the same height as mine, but did you removed the rubber isolators on the Axle, they are work 1/2 inch.

Banishit
14-02-2005, 18:11
does yours not bottom out on the back then kel ? have you got the bump stops fitted ? mine only seems to have 1 1/2 inch of travel before hitting the chassis rails ?

the chassis rails are sitting 41/4" of the ground back and 5" on the front so now I dont know what to do

Kel
14-02-2005, 18:13
I'll be back

Kel
14-02-2005, 18:24
look like that bump stop slipped slipped a bit.

these are standard Mutlisprings with 1 1/2 inch block with the rubber removed from the top. The block can with a spacer to enlargen the spigot on the block to fit the saddle hole on the axle.

http://www.rsownersclub.co.uk/kel/axle.jpg

RS2000&MEXICO
14-02-2005, 18:26
link not working kel..?

Kel
14-02-2005, 18:27
with your old struts on mine is a bit higher than yours, but a 1 inch lower than I had.

Kel
14-02-2005, 18:28
I see it

Banishit
14-02-2005, 18:29
cheers Kel but I cant put lowering blocks in other wise I will be on the floor LOL

Kel
14-02-2005, 18:30
how much decambering has gone on though.

Banishit
14-02-2005, 19:08
5"

Kel
14-02-2005, 19:16
I think we have calculated your problem.

GAZ W
14-02-2005, 19:33
If we use your rear springs and my old front springs we could have the lowest mk2 around...lol

M11RF
14-02-2005, 20:02
Bump stops are for Girls Brian! Get them off!
Seriously looks sweet... i`m jelous... wanna swap back springs??

pockets
14-02-2005, 21:09
i only have about 1" between bump stop and chassis and im using 2" blocks with no rubber bits. its fine around here and im in the highlands!

closest things to the ground are front x member and exhaust, ive not hit the x member yet!

i like it that low, try it out and see if anything catches first

GAZ W
14-02-2005, 21:42
Bump stops are for Girls Brian! Get them off!


yeah brian bump stops are for girls

Note...no bump stops on mine

i.e me all man..lol

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/gaggler/Dscf0059.jpg

RS2000&MEXICO
14-02-2005, 21:59
thats not wat i here gaz ;) .....lol

Banishit
14-02-2005, 22:04
think that might be the next course of action take out the rubbers and remove the stops !

we shall see I think I only need another 1" or so

RS2000&MEXICO
14-02-2005, 22:06
it does look nice like thatn brian ....

Frosticles
14-02-2005, 22:21
Mine used to sit lower than that Brian. Did whets has been mentioned and removed my bump stops. (just don't let anyone sit in the back)

lee bishop
15-02-2005, 18:03
car looks phat brian.........just dont get in it........

Chrisbo
16-02-2005, 11:07
Chuck away the packers Brian that's what I did and then turned up some parts at work to replace the standard pins in the springs. You could just get a local engineering firm to turn you up a couple of thick washers to fit over the spring pin and locate in the axle. The only concern I would have is that although the back of your car probably sits at a nice height just now, the springs will "settle" a bit with age, making it even lower. The front is definately too low though and will catch the front wing lips if you hit a bump with the wheel turned. I know it happened to mine and it wasn't as low as yours and that was with 220 lb springs on the front. What rate are your rear springs Brian?

:cheers:

Chris.

Banishit
16-02-2005, 11:22
200lb I have some 12" springs on the way already as I was looking at that myself chrisbo

I'm going to get the back cambered back up 2 " otherwise I wont be able to put anything /one in the boot back

Chrisbo
16-02-2005, 12:32
Eye, I meant the poundage of the rears Brian. 116's or 146's

:cheers:

Chris.

Trickster
16-02-2005, 13:36
Leave like it is Brian and just take it everywhere on a trailer problem solved :cheers:

RS2000&MEXICO
16-02-2005, 13:39
lol...... were is the fun in that....lol

Trickster
16-02-2005, 13:44
The fun bit would be trying to get it on the trailer without it bottoming out and ripping the exhaust off :cheers:

RS2000&MEXICO
16-02-2005, 13:45
lol.....na i don't see brian going for that....

mk2phil
16-02-2005, 15:10
I was talking about this to the Hoarder today but when putting them this way there does not seem to be anything to locate the spring to axle apart from a small round bit of metel which has a nut on the bottom side of the spring? and the holes in the axle casing are 1" across so surely there would be a lot of movment ?

Brian, when I bought my first mk2 it had decambered single leafs on the back and it was very low indeed - about the same as yours. When I took the springs and axle out, I had no insulator packs and noticed that I also had a 1" diameter locating hole in the axle saddles. And on the spring I had a large 1" locating 'peg' as opposed to just a nut like most I've seen.

When I spoke to Dave @ Gartrac about this (I had a baby atlas built there and they recommended saddles with the small hole) he told me that they were a later 'upgrade' type thing from ford. I've never seen them before myself. I'll get a photo later if I remember...

Also, I had Bilstein struts on the rear of mine (not sure what rate they are) but the rear end was solid - didn't have any bottoming out at all.

The front of yours doesn't look 'that' drastic to me - I've seen loads much lower than that, although you're running 7's aren't you...surely if you have high poundage springs/struts (hard) then it wont be a problem?

Again, mine was pretty low at the front, but it had 2.8i billies on it. I assume these are more uprated than standard RS struts/springs cos they have to support a big V6. When I 'tried' to push the front of mine down, it would only move about 1cm - was very solid.

I would try to work round it mate - yours looks excellent. This is how Ford should have made them - nice and low with 7" Ronals!!!! :cheers:

HTH - I will try to get a picture of the springs tonight too.

mk2phil
16-02-2005, 19:48
Brian - I took a picture for you, but how do you post them on here? Is there no uploader..?

Phil

Banishit
16-02-2005, 20:02
just click here phil and wait a minute for the email to come back to you ;)

http://www.redslate.co.uk/upload/

cheers
Mate

Roger Miller
16-02-2005, 23:01
I put the rear axle on, in the end only to find my decambered single leaf springs are just too low. The axle hits the bumps stops when you push the car down

Brian,
The best fix here is to lengthen the REAR spring hangers. These can be made out of 40 X 6 flat bar, with new holes for spring bolts. U can actually put a few extra holes in them for adjustability. This is the prefered method to remove some of the rears bump steer MR ford built into the car.
The bump stops can be cut down as well.

As for diff location without rubber, at spring seats, U need to make or find a thickish waher that fits over the steel stud that protrudes thru spring and weld this to spring pad hole on diff housing.
If u are worried about noise a thin sheet [2-3 mm] of rubber can be placed between these 2

and the 10" coil over front springs are going to be too low too, as the threaded part of the strut is right down on the brake pipe bracket well 3 mm above so I need 12" now

This is also the prefered scenario. U have fitted the spring threaded section as low as possible, which means u can go upward.
The best fix is turn up some alloy rings to fit over the threaded section, to go between your 10"er and spring seat, at the bottom. u can make this bit however long u like.




the chassis rails are sitting 41/4" of the ground back and 5" on the front so now I dont know what to do

Incidently, the car will handle best if the rear is UP between 16-20 mm higher than front.



PS can u stop showing us your backside...................please. (':pukeright:')
(':thumbright:')

Banishit
17-02-2005, 00:03
cheers for that Roger

BTW have you got pics of the alloy rings for the front spring seating things?


cheers
Brian

Roger Miller
17-02-2005, 01:34
No,

But,

here's some "virtual" ones I made up.


http://www.redslate.co.uk/upload/pics/Virtual-Spacers-1.jpg

Chrisbo
17-02-2005, 10:53
[quote="RMinOZ"] Incidently, the car will handle best if the rear is UP between 16-20 mm higher than front.[quote]

Not questioning you RMinOZ but I was always lead to believe that front wheel drive were always better nose down and rear wheel drive were better nose up???

:cheers:

Chris.

Roger Miller
17-02-2005, 11:35
[quote="RMinOZ"] Incidently, the car will handle best if the rear is UP between 16-20 mm higher than front.[quote]

Not questioning you RMinOZ but I was always lead to believe that front wheel drive were always better nose down and rear wheel drive were better nose up???

:cheers:

Chris.

Dont ask wont find out, i guess.

Need to contact "Myth Busters" me thinks!

A front engined car is front heavy.
Therfore the front wants to take over the car and go straight ahead.
Called understeer or "push"

The best simulation I can think of at mo is a dart. throw it feathers fist and it will eventually turn and land point first.

To reduce this effect, one of the things is we can make the car [seem] heavier at the rear by raising, same, slightly. This changes the center of gravity.

The car also has more in built understeer at the rear.
I eluded to mr ford doing this earlier.

When the car is lowered [or even in a tight turn in STD form] the front pivot point of the rear spring goes below the diff center, center line , looking side on.

This has the effect of turning the diff into the corner.

A boat has a rudder that steers it the opposite way. Thus making it an effective steerer.

Mr ford feels an understeering car is safer for u and me.

This is why i am against decambered springs, as the camber in them makes the diff center line lower, making the rear steer less.
Called Bump Steer.

The lowering blocks preform admirably, except for the axel tramp.
[and dont get me started on the tracktion arms, the RS has]

In Brians situation he is using single leafs i think I read, so they are quite soft. Makeing the car squat down out of corners and moving the CofG back over the rear wheels where he needs it just then.

This is why making the rear shackles longer is best.
Hope Ive covered it

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/RNinOZ/Suspension-REAR/MK-1rear-end.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/RNinOZ/Suspension-REAR/Rear-springs-bump-steer.gif


OH................

Brian ...have u checked your rear shocks for length fit yet.........

Chrisbo
17-02-2005, 13:55
Eh....Yeah, I think so. I am possibly confusing traction with handling

:cheers:

Chris

Banishit
17-02-2005, 18:24
I have now solved the problem went out with a good head of steam and got on with it after the foul mood monday left me with

So I took advice removed the top rubber and plate, mounted a bolt on the spring lug, left the bottom rubber in for location and all seems well ! cut down the top of the bumpstop by 3/4 of and inch attached the billies

it gained me over 1 1/4 inches and removing the top of the bump stop gained anthoer 3/4 the tyres are now still inside the arches and 1" ish but I bounced my near 15 stone of texas beef :wink: on it and could not get it to bottom out no matter how hard I tried the rear part of the chassis rail is now 5 1/2" off the ground instead of 4 1/2 ish

Cant take pics of the PIMP my Ride as the cameras gone until sat had to borrow the neighbours during work

http://www.redslate.co.uk/upload/pics/after.JPG

http://www.redslate.co.uk/upload/pics/before.JPG

Chesney
17-02-2005, 18:31
Brian u lazy bugger - u could have painted the mounting bracket for your bump stops!!

Banishit
17-02-2005, 18:32
Brian u lazy bugger - u could have painted the mounting bracket for your bump stops!!

LOL I really could not be arsed until I find some new ones or replacements :geek:

Chesney
17-02-2005, 18:34
before Paul says it, have u tried Darren!!! lol

Banishit
17-02-2005, 18:39
Darren ? Darren who ? LOL

GAZ W
17-02-2005, 19:47
glad to see youve solved the problem mate :cheers:

RS2000&MEXICO
17-02-2005, 20:04
lol

Roger Miller
18-02-2005, 03:58
Brian ...have u checked your rear shocks for length fit yet..........

and

do the springs [leaf] get thinner ar they travel out from diff mounts.

Some pics maybe. of differnece in thickness.

Banishit
18-02-2005, 08:24
roger see page 3

its all sorted, the shock are bilsteins and travel seems fine and springs do get thinner

but there a couple of pics on page 3 with what I did

cheers
Brian

Banishit
19-02-2005, 20:34
heres what the car sits like now chappies

http://www.banishit.com/after1.JPG

http://www.banishit.com/after2.JPG

http://www.banishit.com/after3.JPG

Frosticles
19-02-2005, 20:39
Is that rust on the inner rear arch young Brian???????????????? he he

Banishit
19-02-2005, 20:41
YEP black waxoyl rust mate those Swiss are cunning they get us to spray the rust on by ourselves, I reckon they are taking over the world silently

RS2000&MEXICO
19-02-2005, 21:14
yum yum brian she looks sexy...

wiggyrs
19-02-2005, 22:26
Looks good with the 7s on..