RS from Rally garage not as sound as said!

[Leckypete]

Well whilst tidying up my recently aquired mk2 (it came covered in dust inside & out) I have found a fair bit of tin worm under the D/Side (spring cup brace to drip rail from cup also bulkhead ledge) & cup on P/side.

Have been in touch with the seller ( A Escort rally garage in Scotland) but looks like he's now ignoring me:mad: :mad:

Paid 5k for the car described as a good tidy car, the body is very straight with only a bit of bubbling to the rear arches so was really gutted to find this rot!:eek:

Know the under wing kits are reasonably priced but only place I have found that does the brace to the cup is www.steelpanels.co.uk (http://www.steelpanels.co.uk) at £38 each:( they also do a complete bulkhead for £360 or a side repair panel (which I may need) for £50.

If anyone knows anywhere cheaper, let me know;)

Really expected the garage owner to be shocked & offer to sort the problem but looks like he wasnt the guy I thought he was, have sent e-mails & left phone messages but nothing.

Any suggestions (legal of course:D )

Peter.

[black x pack]

this may sound negative but if i was buying a car from a dealer i would have expected it to have been cleaned so he could describe it honestley , did you get a proper look under it before laying out your cash ? if it has a new mot you can complain about structural rust to the tester and get the seller to rectify it at their cost or the testers..

[marky4]

sorry to hear that peter :( hope you get it sorted out mate ;)

[RS2000&MEXICO]

gutted for you peter.....try escort tec for the panels as they cut up four doors all the time and might have these for you

[Kal]

sorry to hear that mate, do you have any pics of the car and the bad bits

[Darran]

As paul has said we can surply bulhead sides etc.:)

Darran
07733280190

[Leckypete]

The garage that did the test was the garage selling it:rolleyes:

It looked clean on the web, in fact apart from him telling me it had a few microblisters on the bonnet (has them on top of wings & boot as well as bonnet) its body is actually very good.

It really gets to me as originally I planned to go up & drive it home but after weighing up cost/time I got it delivered, but I could have had my 10 year old in the car, shudder to think if we had a smash on way home.

Also both front tyres are perished on the sidewalls (think its stood in storage for a long time) should have failed on these alone would have thought.

Given the structural corrosion & issue with the tyres I would have thought he would have gone out of his way to sort it but after sending him the pictures & stating that IF he wasnt prepared to do the descent thing I would have to take legal action he just wrote back saying hes not prepared to do any repairs because I threatened legal action!

Called him (has been very friendly upto now, hence my surprise at his reaction) he said to cal him next day as he was busy & we would discuss it, tried calling but although left a message with a family member he hasnt called back so it looks like I will be forced to take legal action because he isnt prepared to sort it.

He must realise its going to cost him more this way?

I'm not a malisious guy, would have been happy to let him fix it during quiet periods but think now best to get done elswhere & get him to reimberse repair costs.

Any advise on Escort friendly bodyshops in North east, any legal advise also appreciated.

Pics of D/side (P/side not as bad mainly cup)

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/Leckypete/DSwheelwellrotRS.jpg


http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/Leckypete/P4270051.jpg

http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/Leckypete/rottendstowercupRS.jpg

http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/Leckypete/DSinnerwingbumperbrkthole.jpg

http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/Leckypete/perishedRStyre3.jpg

(http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/Leckypete/perishedRStyre3.jpg)

The bumper area ended up a bit worse after a bit more prodding:mad:

This amount of corrosion should have been checked at mot surely, the cup was obviously badly rusted away & the reinforcer literally came away in my hands!

Any mot testers to verify on here?

Thanks,
Peter.

[paul spence]

my mate charlie chisholm is the lad for you pete,il pm his number

[pinto48s]

the rust looks pretty bad, don't think i'd have passed it when i was testing. if you,re going to persue a claim don,t do any work on the car. it'll be worth getting in touch with vosa about the mot...

[dandibo]

Well whilst tidying up my recently aquired mk2 (it came covered in dust inside & out) I have found a fair bit of tin worm under the D/Side (spring cup brace to drip rail from cup also bulkhead ledge) & cup on P/side.

Have been in touch with the seller ( A Escort rally garage in Scotland) but looks like he's now ignoring me:mad: :mad:

Paid 5k for the car described as a good tidy car, the body is very straight with only a bit of bubbling to the rear arches so was really gutted to find this rot!:eek:

Know the under wing kits are reasonably priced but only place I have found that does the brace to the cup is www.steelpanels.co.uk (http://www.steelpanels.co.uk) at £38 each:( they also do a complete bulkhead for £360 or a side repair panel (which I may need) for £50.

If anyone knows anywhere cheaper, let me know;)

Really expected the garage owner to be shocked & offer to sort the problem but looks like he wasnt the guy I thought he was, have sent e-mails & left phone messages but nothing.

Any suggestions (legal of course:D )

Peter.

BUDDY WHERE ABOUT IN SCOTLAND DID YOU BUY IT FROM ? IS IT BLACK IN COLOUR?

[a1topdog]

If the car is still listed on his website make sure you download / print off all the info he has listed for it as proof of how it was described before you bought it.

[Leckypete]

Hi,
Yes have copied the advert & all the e-mails.

[hotrs2000]

I would contact VOSA, he is passing cars just to make cash when he sells them on.:mad:

Escort-Tec are good for bits and very helpful:)

[custom219v]

Shocking! VOSA re the MOT & Fill in a small claims form for the estimated repair costs and get it sent off asap, will take months to go through. Before you send it write to the guy explaining you will be in touch with VOSA and registering a claim at the small claims court give him 10 days to acknowledge you and send it recorded post, out line what exactly you expect I.E £1000 refund for repairs or what ever the cost is. Under no circumstance let him have the car back to work on..

[graham John]

and take as many pics as you can of the area affected,


cheeRS

[alladdin]

and looking at those pics i would be surprised if you dont find more :(

[Alonso]

BUDDY WHERE ABOUT IN SCOTLAND DID YOU BUY IT FROM ? IS IT BLACK IN COLOUR?
Yes name & shame :mad:

[bortaf]

and looking at those pics i would be surprised if you dont find more :(

Judging form those pics i recon Mr Stevie Wonder will be getting his P45 from that garage :eek:

Not even coverd up with underseal, what a **** take, i guess some people don't really want their MOT liecence :cussing:

[paul mex]

and looking at those pics i would be surprised if you dont find more :(
Thats just what I was thinking too. Its a big bad world out there.Hope they do the decent thing for you mate.

[Banishit]

thats a bloody state, I would be on to the trading std's with it

the Firm does not start with M does it ?

[black x pack]

any news ?? has the scumbag come back to you yet with some answers ?? :(

[dasadrew]

IF he wasnt prepared to do the descent thing I would have to take legal action.......any legal advise also appreciated.

....... scumbag .......

........name & shame.......

Very sad state of affairs. I'm afraid the rule on buying 30 year old cars is to trust no-one but yourself. Best of luck.

If you are really thinking of going legal, I would DEFINITELY refrain from naming, shaming and insulting on an open public Internet forum as that may backfire badly.

[Hoogi]

Yes, I agree..........

Leave the name and shame game alone.

You can always play catch-up if it all goes pear shaped.

If you get to a stage were nothings doing with the Garage and you need spares to put right just ask the chaps on here if they can help out.

I'm sure we can rally around.

Best of Luck.

[Leckypete]

Thanks guy's,

No word from him affraid, have spoken to Citizens advice people they think I should be able to do him for several things including breach of contract (said he would tax the car but didnt), sale of goods act (must match its description, be fit for purpose & be of satisfactory quality) related to price paid etc.
Misrepresentation & possibly comitted a criminal offence (selling a unroadworthy vehicle without stating the vehicle required work)

Will contact trading standard to see what they say.

Have asked a couple of garages & Charlie Chisolm (thanks Paul) to give me quotes on repair costs so can present this to him/legal team.

Really annoying not being able to do anything to the car.

[Leckypete]

Just a thought,
Are there any proffessionals in the N/East that could inspect the car to give a written description to help if does go to court?
Live Darlington.

CheeRS,
Peter.

[paul spence]

again pete, I would contact charlie.

[dasadrew]

take it step by step. DON'T make any more 'phone calls. If you send letters, send them as registered post. If you've made 'phone calls, write the date & time and content down NOW before you forget. See if your 'phone bill can contain the numbers dialled (if it doesn't already).

Start preparing a WRITTEN dossier of all events.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend letting the car into the hands of other Experts at the moment.

It could be a good idea now to put everything into a letter and send it to him. Be VERY cool - no accusations, just facts. Demand a reply within a "reasonable" time (say 5 working days).

Follow up all advice of CAB etc (but don't expect TOO much from them) Are you in a motoring club like AA or RAC who may offer legal advice?

[Mr G.]

Him being a trader has to supply road worthy goods and this is clearly not. You have a legal right to get your full money back or get compensation for a car that was not properly described. As said, keep all correspondence/adverts etc and seek legal advice,tbh he has not got a leg to stand on,can't believe he's ignoring your calls,fkn muppet:mad:

[dasadrew]

Him being a trader has to supply road worthy goods and this is clearly not. You have a legal right to get your full money back or get compensation for a car that was not properly described. As said, keep all correspondence/adverts etc and seek legal advice,tbh he has not got a leg to stand on,can't believe he's ignoring your calls,fkn muppet:mad:

'tis very unfortunate, but "being in the right" and "getting your rights" are often poles apart.

Stay polite and factual. That way, if the "legal" way doesn't work out, you may still be able to barter some solution face-to-face with him. If you get nasty, threatening and insulting right at the start, then you've immediately lost the back up solution, however improbable it may be.

A solicitor's letter which may even offer a possible financial solution could be the right approach. Don't expect the legal system to spend time in helping you get back 500 quid - it's too tied up with wading through invented excuses by speeders who want to get out of paying a fine which they fairly and squarely deserved!! :p

[black x pack]

any news on your car problems ? we have not heard anything for nearly a month , i hope you are getting somewhere with your claim .. :evil3:

[Leckypete]

Hi Guys,

I sent off a "letter before action" to him on Monday (2-6-08)giving him 14 days to offer compensation before I re-contact trading standards & instruct my solicitor to issue a claim in the small claims court (my wife works in a solicitors office)

Havent had any reply yet (about 9 days before deadline)

Have also sent details including pictures & 2 repair quotes (for about 2.5k)
to HSBC who's credit card I paid the bulk of the purchase price on.
As CAB told me they are jointly responsible for faulty goods along with seller ( so hopefully they will be contacting him too)

Have asked Darran to put asside a front end for me so I can get it repaired once I get some compo, its very frustrating having the car in the garage unused (i've only driven it down my drive from the transporter it was delivered on:( )

Still cant believe a rally specialist didnt check the car (was registered in his name, taken in p/x so would have thought he would have given it a thorough check to determine p/x offer (price he paid)???

Really do feel no sympathy if it does badly affect his business now, he knew I have 2 young kids & would be using the car, indeed I had originally intended to collect the car & drive it home (wish I had gone up there now:mad: )

Peter.

[alladdin]

if it was me i would want rid, unless you have had the rest of it inspected?

[custom219v]

Any updates mate?

[Leckypete]

Had no reply from him, his 14 day limit is now up so have contacted trading standards, they are going to contact me in next couple of days, will then instruct solicitor to issue a claim for repairs.

Thanks to Darran for the mint Australian front end, cant wait to get it fitted & get car sorted , have checked the rest & all ok (couple of small plates about 6" forward of front spring hangers on both sides but thats it)

Might cut them out & do a proper invisable repair.

Peter.

[black x pack]

any news ?? has he got his finger out of his ass yet now trading standards are involved ??

[Leckypete]

No word yet affraid:mad:
Also have the credit card company on to him as I (thankfully) paid using it.
My wife has said to see how they get on before I persue a claim against him myself as they could/should do it for me thus saving the cost?

[RS2kSX]

any more news?

[Leckypete]

Looks like am going to have to instruct my solicitor (at wifes place) as the card company are trying to get out of it:mad:

If the garage owner is watching this (suspect he must know of the site & sure he would recognise this!) Do the descent thing & settle up, I will take you to court so this is last chance to sort it. You sold me a car needing major work for £5k, advertised as although not concourse it being a good tidy practical car. It is miles from this at the moment!

Thanks to Darran I have a very good front end to get fitted when Charlie has the time to do it, so thanks to these very helpfull and friendly enthusiasts I will one day own a RS to be proud of, no thanks to a certain garage owner in Scotland (who will be named & shamed if he doesnt do the right thing, and not just on here!)

Thanks also to all the enthusiasts that have offered support & help!

Peter.

[a1topdog]

Try and make a claim through the small claims court. YOu can do it all online and it doesn't cost much. I'm not sure what the max amount is you can claim this way , but have a read up about it here:

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

[Rallyrsmd]

I would pursue the credit card company a bit harder. Maybe they are fobbing you off?
Obviously I don't know the details of your case, but in most similar situations I would have thought you sue them, and they sue him? Is it not the case that by using a credit card you effectively bought the car from the credit card company and they in turn paid him?

I sell a lot of products online & take credit card payments, & I had an experience where someone claimed that they never ordered the goods (value £5000) and they never arrived. The credit card company were very thorough, and only agreed not to credit the purchaser & debit my account when I produced copies of a signed purchase order, credit card receipt and proof of delivery.

They seemed to be very much on the side of the consumer.

[Class]

Sorry to see/ hear this Pete. Hope things get sorted out for you.

[johnylock]

pete

i bought a golf gti 1.8turbo from a dealer in manchester a few years ago ! there was a constant electrical fault on the car wich i paid £16k for !!!!!!! every time the fault light came on the dash the car would cut out or run like a bag of shit ! so after going back to the dealer many times ! who just pluged in a lap top and cleared the memory hence clearing the warning light ! i contacted Trading Standards . They were excellent and was on him like white on rice son ! he soon seen his arse and i got a replacement car ! same black golf gti with a bit of extra spec and two years newer than the one i had , And all this was battled for over a year but i won . Keep on with trading standards mate and also a bit of direct action wouldnt go a miss ! print some A4 posters telling everyone what a shister he is and post them round the surrounding area ! belive me mate you need to become a stone in his shoe and he will settle to get rid of you .

viva le revolution !

[Leckypete]

LOL John,
Have had a PM from Ian of Mercury Motorsport asking me to clarify that it has nothing at all to do with his business which it hasnt.
He knows the garage owner I did buy it from and has kindly offered to mediate and talk to him about the problem.

So Hopefully all things being equal I may be a lot happier soon than I have been:)

Peter.

[Frosticles]

Really hope you get this sorted. Shocked by this. :(

[a1topdog]

I admire the way you have handled this. Lets just hope the seller does to and comes to an amicable solution.

[Leckypete]

Today recieved a letter from the credit card company:-

"The retailer has informed us that he feels that you got a good deal because he claims a vehicle of it's age could fetch over £10000 and the price did reflect its condition. The retailer also advised the bank that a car of this age was bound to have problems and was not advertised as being in perfect condition.

I appreciate this is not the response you were looking for. Should you wish to pursue the matter further, I would suggest you seek your own independant advice as to your position and any action you may take."

Well I am not saying a very good RS2000 isnt going to fetch over £10k but I am sure I wouldnt have paid 5K for mine if I had seen it before it was delivered, he described it as being sound underneath, stating he had replaced parts so I believed him.

I knew it wouldnt be concourse but expected it to be sound, it does need work and some parts replacing/repairing/sourcing to complete. This I was willing to accept for the price but not to have to do a major re-build!

What I need now I think in case Ian cant convince him to be fair is for someone that can give a proper valuation on my car that the credit card company will have to listen to, dont know if they have looked into valuations or have just taken his word for it (they have plenty of pictures showing the condition of it)

Any suggestions for such people or volunteers?

Thanks,
Peter.

[a1topdog]

I can't help with the valuation , but what you need to do is start to gather evidence of what these cars sell for in various conditions. Save all the for sale ad's you can find (ebay , forums etc) and build your case up , just incase you do have to take things further.

[Banishit]

a1togdogs comments yes check out prices but forget EBAY as its not a true reflection of RS prices and most on there are shite anyway, thats why they are on there, ther have been a few good ones 1 in 20 odd and the prices are artificially high

from the pictures I have seen about £2-2.5K would be nearer the mark at a push the car needs a full rebuild would be more if it were a rare colour

[dasadrew]

Have you contacted the previous owner? If he then says the garage owner told him "Can only give you 2k M8. Car's only fit for breaking" then you're on to a winner.

Have you had the car re-MOT'd yet? If a reputable garage (Main Ford Dealer would look good) declares it an MOT failure then that gives you good evidence too.

I just got back £2000 from a guy who sold me wrong alloy wheels on eBay. It took THREE YEARS and two court cases but diligence and patience did pay off in the end. About 18 months ago I wrote the matter off mentally, so it was a nice windfall. Be prepared also at some time to let the legal case run, but look to the future and put it behind you.

Again, refuse advice from anyone just recovering from a lobotomy to take the law into your own hands. It's unfortunate but, until this guy is proven wrong, he is deemed to be innocent and anything you write or say to defame him can come back to you as a prosecution for libel and slander. As he owns a business he probably has a legal insurance and will also be able to prove that you are damaging his business. The consequences don't bear thinking about. That applies to any third party making defamous statements too!

[oxb1l]

I am looking for an RS2 at the moment and looking to spend around the same as yourself m8 (for a descent useable car)and there is no way on this earth i would have paid anything like that for this vehicle .
as for the previous owner its as easy for him to contact as it is for you.

10k car this makes me feckn mad ,these people must have family i would never do anythin like that to anyone incase it came back on me

l8r Bill (must bite tongue :mad: )

[Rallyrsmd]

There is a lot of advice flying around here. i would try to clear your mind & look at things in a logical way.
Is it the case if you paid with a credit card you bought the car from them, not him? If so it's them you need the money back from, not the dealer.
At the moment you have contacted them, and they have contacted him. He has responded, and they in turn have got back to you with the answer. Now it's your turn to give them the evidence they need.
Did you get anything in writing as to the condition of the car? Do you have a copy of the advert & does it say anything?
What about the MOT. Take the car to an MOT testing station & get a fail report (if it fails!). That gives you some ammunition to go back to the credit card company with.
So in an ideal world you can prove that you paid for a car which wasn't as described and is officially unroadworthy. The credit card company might take a different view given that evidence. If not, you have gathered the evidence you need for a legal claim.

[Banishit]

There is a lot of advice flying around here. i would try to clear your mind & look at things in a logical way.
Is it the case if you paid with a credit card you bought the car from them, not him? If so it's them you need the money back from, not the dealer.
At the moment you have contacted them, and they have contacted him. He has responded, and they in turn have got back to you with the answer. Now it's your turn to give them the evidence they need.
Did you get anything in writing as to the condition of the car? Do you have a copy of the advert & does it say anything?
What about the MOT. Take the car to an MOT testing station & get a fail report (if it fails!). That gives you some ammunition to go back to the credit card company with.
So in an ideal world you can prove that you paid for a car which wasn't as described and is officially unroadworthy. The credit card company might take a different view given that evidence. If not, you have gathered the evidence you need for a legal claim.

all that has been answered in the posts above yours ;)

[Rallyrsmd]

all that has been answered in the posts above yours ;)

So where does it say how seller described the car in the original advert?

Where does it say the owner has an MOT test station fail report and what it says?

These two are crucial to show if the car is 'as described' and roadworthy.

The credit card company have ducked the issue on the basis that a car of that age and price wouldn't be perfect. My response, armed with the above, would be I didn't expect perfection, I expected it to be safe, roadworthy & as described in the advert.

Hope you get on OK with it.

[Leckypete]

Update:-

Got another letter from the card company saying:-

Whilst the bank notes it will cost in the region of £2500 to make the vehicle roadworthy the main question is whether the vehicle is worth the amount paid in its present condition.

We have therefore written to The Ford RS Owners Club to ask if they know of anybody in your area who would be able to value the vehicle for us. Once we have recieved a response from them we will contact you again.

So looking a bit more hopefull??!!

Regarding the mot, I contacted VOSA and Trading standards, VOSA wernt interested as more than 3 months had passed since test (although a complete fool could see the amount of corrosion, even sunk in the north sea wouldnt rust that much in 3 months!)
Trading standards similar but they have a 2 month limit (to prove without doubt car was in that condition when delivered) again since it was/is dry stored anyone should know corrosion doesnt get much if any worse in this environment but so called experts at T.S of no use.

So going to expense of mot seams pointless as sure they would say it only proves its unroadworthy now not when sold/delivered:confused:

Going by the banks letter I read it they accept the car isnt roadworthy anyway.

Car was described in advert as although not concourse it being a good tidy practical car with 10 months mot.

I read that as although not better than new (a concourse example) it being a sound honest example (was verbally described as sound by garage owner)

If he had intended that to read it needed work he should have said so in plain english.